Wîkîpediya:Dîwan (pêşniyaz)/Arşîv 2

Arşîv 1

Arşîv 2

Tine û ti

@Guherto, Ghybu, MikaelF, û Bikarhêner: @Xwedêda, Rasti, Bargiranewe, û Avestaboy: @Mohajeer, Jiju, Pispor, û Balyozxane: @Bibliophile, Rewiye tine, û Penaber49: Gelo em dikarin li hev bikin ku di Wîkiya me de, êdî tenê tine û ti werin nivîsandin, lê ne tune û tu? Em nikarin heta hetayê hemû versiyonan binivîsin, divê standarteke me hebe. Mînak dema mirov bibêje Ti kes nehat. û versiyona Tu kes nehat. binivîse weke kesê/a duyem xuya dike û nebaş e. Hûn çi dibêjin? Qewet be!—Gomada^peyam 13:29, 6 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Bi fikra min ti kes çêtir e, wek te gotî tu kes kesê duyem tîne aqlê mirov û belkî ne li vir, emma li gelek cihan dê tevlîhevî çêbe. Mohajeer (gotûbêj) 19:14, 6 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Ez jî alîgirê "ti"yê me. Lê divê em li çavkaniyan jî binêrin. Mîsalen ka di Ji bo Rastnivîsînê Ferhenga Kurdî - Tirkî de ji bo vê peyvê kîjan awa wek standard maqûl dîtine? -- Bikarhêner (gotûbêj) 09:46, 7 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Ez piçekî dereng mam, lê rast e "ti" baştir e. Lê ez fêm nakim hûn çi dibêjin ser bê kesê duwa têne 'aqilê yekî. Di devoka mi de em ji kesê duwa re dibêjin "ti" û ji vê gotinê re jî dibêjin "ti" (dengê wan ne 'eynî ye, tenê nivîsandin 'eynî ye) û di xwendinê de serê yekî gêj nabê. -- Guherto (gotûbêj) 10:17, 23 gulan 2021 (UTC)

@Gomada: Roj baş bira. Bi min tu mafdar î, ji vir ha pewîste peyva "Tine û ti" bê kar anîn. slav û rez Rasti (gotûbêj) 07:19, 29 tebax 2021 (UTC)

Guhartina koda zimanî ya nivîsên Wîkîpediyayê

Ping @MikaelF, Penaber49, Avestaboy, Gomada, Ghybu, Guherto, û Bikarhêner:

Silav hevalno! Ez ji xuyakirina nivîsên li ser Wîkîpediyaya me aciz im. Dema tiştek dixwînim ji min qet nayê xilas bikim ji ber ku xuyakirina peyvan gelek "sivik" / "biçûk" in. Ew pirsgirêk ji ber koda me derdikeve, Ew jî "ku" ye. Lê li gorî CLDRyê (malpera ku stîlên ji bo zimanan biryar dide) divê koda me "ku-Latn-TR" be [1]. Mînakeke biçûk:

1. Bêkod

Li tableteke kîl ya sumerî ji hezarsala BZ 3yem qala "Axa Karda" hatiye kirin.

2. Kod "ku":

Li tableteke kîl ya sumerî ji hezarsala BZ 3yem qala "Axa Karda" hatiye kirin.

3. Kod "ku-Latn":

Li tableteke kîl ya sumerî ji hezarsala BZ 3yem qala "Axa Karda" hatiye kirin.

Ji bo mînakeke dirêj binêrin Bikarhêner:Balyozxane/ziman.

Bawer dikim heke em li ser phabricatorê pirs bikin, ew ê karibin alîkariya me bikin. Ez nabêjim em koda malperê biguherînin. Ev gotûbêj tenê guhartina stîla nivîsîna gotaran e. Hûn çi difikirin? Kîjan awa baştir e?--Balyozxane (gotûbêj) 20:59, 22 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Geroka Google Chromê bo koda "lang:ku" formata tîpên erebî bi kar tînê û Mozilla Firefox jî li gorî tîpên latînî format dike... Ghybu (gotûbêj) 03:39, 23 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Opera jî wek Chromê dike haya min ji formata Firefoxê tune bû. Spas bo sererastkirinê. Balyozxane (gotûbêj) 03:59, 23 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Ez ti ferq nabînim. Ḧemû nivîs weke hev in?? -- Guherto (gotûbêj) 10:23, 23 gulan 2021 (UTC)

@Guherto: Kîjan gerokê bi kar tînî? Balyozxane (gotûbêj) 19:32, 23 gulan 2021 (UTC)

@Balyozxane û Guherto: Dembaş, ez jî ti ferqa tê de nabînim. --MikaelF (gotûbêj) 07:48, 24 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Request for your feedback on improving the Content Translation tool for Kurdish Wikipedia

Hello Kurdish Wikipedians!

Apologies as this message is not in your native language, Please help translate to your language.

The WMF language team is reaching out to your community, the Kurdish Wikipedia, about the Content translation tool. We noticed that the number of articles created with the Content Translation tool in your wiki is low. We say this because, from our statistics, 10075 articles were added to Kurdish Wikipedia in 2020. However, out of the above figure, only 428 were translated using the Content Translation tool; 19 of the articles added with Content translation were deleted. The tool's low usage signals a problem or deficiencies that might be peculiar to Kurdish Wikipedia. The Content Translation tool can increase content creation in your Wikipedia. Also, it is an excellent way to efficiently introduce newcomers to adding content and expand on existing ones.

So we, the WMF Language team will like to get answers from members of your community on the following questions:

• What deficiencies do articles created with the Content translation tool have that makes them not of good quality?
• What makes it challenging to use the tool to create content in your Wikipedia.
• How can this tool be improved to make it more user-friendly and efficient to add good quality content in your language Wikipedia?

We believe that the answers to the above questions are good ways to get insight into improving the tool for your community and others. So please, feel free to provide us feedback in this thread, or you can also email us your feedback using the title of this message as your subject.

Thank you so much, as we look forward to your participation.

UOzurumba (WMF) (gotûbêj) 18:41, 26 gulan 2021 (UTC) On behalf of the WMF Language team.

• Silav GPinkerton, Wikipedia official is asking about the shortcomings of the translation tools. If there are any deficiencies regarding your translations, you can write to the official. —Penaber49 (gotûbêj) 19:26, 26 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Silav Penaber49 I have not used this tool. I did not know it existed. GPinkerton (gotûbêj) 19:37, 26 gulan 2021 (UTC)

@GPinkerton:, temam spas —Penaber49 (gotûbêj) 19:52, 26 gulan 2021 (UTC)

• Silav UOzurumba (WMF), Thank you for your interest. I have used this translation several times. Translation has not developed much. I think it should be developed a little more by someone who has a good level of English and Kurdish. —Penaber49 (gotûbêj) 19:59, 26 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Penaber49, for your feedback that the tool needs further development by someone who understands English and Kurdish. I know that the tool needs further development. So, are there specific development you are looking at that will improve its usage in your Wikipedia? Also, can you elaborate on why you think the improvement should be made by someone who understands Kurdish and English? Finally, would it help if admins or top users of the tool from your community engage with our team to further improve the Content Translation tool?

UOzurumba (WMF) (gotûbêj) 21:45, 30 gulan 2021 (UTC)

• Silav UOzurumba (WMF) Looking at this tool (for the first time) it is immediately obvious that 1.) the interface is not wholly in Kurdish (at least, I see a mixture of English and Kurdish instructions) and 2.) the machine-translation tool is similar if not identical to the Google translation tool, which routinely fails to produce anything reliably intelligible translating between these languages. (The situation is completely different with English-French, -German, -Turkish, etc.) The latter is doubtless a product of the history of the language itself, which has (mildly) produced inhospitable conditions for the development of a national corpus (let alone a digitized one) on which a machine-translator can rely. It is very likely that in the not-very-distant future, and very possibly already, Wikipedia itself will constitute the largest single body of (Latin text) Kurdish writing in existence. Until a digitized corpus of written Kurdish can develop enough for machine translation to rely on, such tools may be hamstrung by all the same difficulties that impede Kurdish language "off-wiki"/"IRL". GPinkerton (gotûbêj) 20:00, 26 gulan 2021 (UTC)
  

Thank you GPinkerton for your feedback which communicates that the tool's interface in your Wikipedia is not fully translated. Also, the Machine translation service from google is a problem because its translations are far from accurate, making it unreliable.

So, you are saying: one of the reasons for the Content Translation tool's low usage in your Wikipedia is the inaccuracy of the Machine translation? UOzurumba (WMF) (gotûbêj) 21:16, 30 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Silav UOzurumba (WMF) As I say in the discussion above, I haven't used the tool until now. (I wouldn't know how to access it.) I'm also new here and my answer is speculation. I do not know the reasons, I can only guess. I have never seen a link to this tool anywhere, so maybe its visibility can be increased somehow? I suggest you ask more experienced users directly. There are not many. "10075 articles were added to Kurdish Wikipedia in 2020" seems like an extraordinarily high number. I do not believe the rate of article creation is anything like that high now. How many of these pages are redirects and categories? GPinkerton (gotûbêj) 21:28, 30 gulan 2021 (UTC)

But yes, to be clear, one of the reasons for the Content Translation tool's low usage in this Wikipedia could be the inaccuracy of the machine translation. GPinkerton (gotûbêj) 21:30, 30 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it's kinda hard to find the tool for new users, you have to first enable it on Taybet:Tercîh#mw-prefsection-betafeatures, then remember that it's on the "contributions/beşdarî" tab while hovering over. Other reasons would include:

1. Our main contributors are on mobile. As far as I know, there is no mobile support.
2. UI is too buggy, it keeps jumping up and down.
3. Doesn't translate the infoboxes
4. The original content can't be updated if you are in the middle of a translation and the original changes.
5. Above all, we don't have a good number of editors that contribute periodically. Balyozxane (gotûbêj) 21:53, 30 gulan 2021 (UTC)

ping @UOzurumba (WMF): Balyozxane (gotûbêj) 21:54, 30 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Silav UOzurumba (WMF) I am not very happy about this translation tool in the Kurdish Wikipedia, the way it is used and as for the result. I have used this tool a couple of times for the structure of an article, but the translation itself is often difficult to understand and it is full of misspellings. Some users who did use the tool in the past, translated articles from the English Wiki and asked other users to correct the language, which was an almost impossible task, because you had to re-read the origional and almost correct everything by using your own words. In the Kurdish Wiki, as for how the tool works at present, I prefer shorter original stubs or articles instead of a long article created by a translation tool, the result of which is really difficult to understand and which challenges the user's own natural linguistic intuition. Thank you for starting this discussion.--MikaelF (gotûbêj) 06:40, 31 gulan 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, Balyozxane for your feedback; it has been well noted. Yes, the Content translation tool is still in beta in Kurdish Wikipedia. We plan to bring it out of beta (enable it) in your Wikipedia for easier access if it is okay by your community. About your point that Kurdish Wikipedia is a community of mainly mobile users, the good news is that we, the WMF Language team, has developed a tool called Section Translation. The tool is designed to help mobile users to translate an article one section at a time. The above mentioned new tool also ensures that multiple people can work on one article section by section, more like paragraph by paragraph, almost like MikaelF suggested.

The tool is enabled only in the Bengali Wikipedia because the Bengali editors helped validate the Section translation concept during the initial research with positive results. We are working with the community through different testing research sessions to learn about their experiences with the tool to improve it and enable it in other small Wikis with high mobile edits or contributions. Nevertheless, you can still try the tool in a test server and provide us with feedback; you can also track the tool's progress. In the 2021-2022 fiscal year (which starts in July 2021), we will be ready to enable it in other small Wikipedias and continue to learn from their experience to improve it further.

Once again, thank you, everyone, for your valuable feedback; they are all noted and will we work towards improving the tool based on your inputs; please do not hesitate to provide still more information that will help us. --UOzurumba (WMF) (gotûbêj) 12:50, 7 hezîran 2021 (UTC)

Translation quality

Hi @UOzurumba (WMF). We're having problems with people publishing their translations without any corrections to machine translations. I was reading about Translation quality on the Project page. Could you please shed some light on how to implement higher restrictions on translations? Thank you! ----Balyozxane (gotûbêj). 10:23, 22 çiriya paşîn 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Balyozxane, for highlighting this situation. We can implement higher restrictions once your community evaluates the condition (Going through the translation and assessing the level of changes that would increase the quality, and you tell us to make the Machine translation stricter by maybe 10%. The language team will effect that, and your community will monitor the translations made afterwards to see if there are improvements. If there are no improvements, we iterate. The above is the fastest way to go about it. The other way would be to provide three or more samples of translations that are poor and give the correction of the translation side by side in a spreadsheet. Then the language team would use logic to determine the percentage adjustment to make the Machine translation stricter.

I hope the above explanation helps.

Best regards UOzurumba (WMF) (gotûbêj) 19:19, 22 çiriya paşîn 2022 (UTC)

@UOzurumba (WMF) Can we implement the 10 or maybe even 20% increase right away? (Or where can I request this?) Then I will start with collecting translation samples. If you could tell me how many characters/words/sentences, you need for inspection, I would appreciate it a lot. Thank you! --Balyozxane (gotûbêj). 20:48, 22 çiriya paşîn 2022 (UTC)

@UOzurumba (WMF) I'm sorry for pinging you too much but Content translation has caused too much problems. Don't get me wrong the tool is amazing, I love using it but people are lazy, they tend to use it just to pump up numbers and we don't have enough people to deal with all the bad translations. Machine translation for Kurdish is still at an early stage. What is the striction threshold for languages like us? Can we actually start from the highest striction possible and slowly move down from there? Thank you. --Balyozxane (gotûbêj). 21:08, 22 çiriya paşîn 2022 (UTC)

@Balyozxane You can create a ticket in phabricator and share the link with me when you are done.

About how many words, there is no specific number of words, but 300 words per sample should be fine. If you choose the first option, the sample translation you collect would be for your community to make an informed decision on the percentage of strictness to request for. UOzurumba (WMF) (gotûbêj) 21:37, 22 çiriya paşîn 2022 (UTC)

@UOzurumba (WMF): created the ticket at phab:T324941 --Balyozxane (gotûbêj). 08:15, 12 kanûna pêşîn 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Balyozxane, for taking the lead on this. I will notify the Language team of this ticket, and you can monitor the progress.

Once the changes are effected, your community can monitor the content translated, and if there is a need to adjust it, please feel free to let us know. UOzurumba (WMF) (gotûbêj) 22:13, 12 kanûna pêşîn 2022 (UTC)

Daxwaza Astengkirina Avestaboy-ê

Merheba. Ev bû çend car e ku eynî meseleyê tînim ziman. Lê mixabin admînên Wîkîpediyayê guh nadin min.

Avestaboy tev peyvên li ser gotarên min ên gotarên din diguherîne. Avestaboy ne zimannas e. Zimanê kurdî ji min çêtir nizane. Jixwe însanekî cahil û nezan e. Peyvên kurdî yên li ser Wîkîpediya kurdî (ên riherebî an rih-zimanekî-din) li gorî serê xwe diguherîne.

@MikaelF, Gomada, û Ghybu: Ji kerema xwe vîyane asteng bikin ku nikaribe tiştekî xira bike.

@Sayit25, Xwedêda, û Balyozxane: Hûn çi difikirin? -- Bikarhêner (gotûbêj) 14:55, 15 sibat 2022 (UTC)

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Birêz @Bikarhêner: tu çawan î? Eşkera ye ku bêhna te bi karê Avestaboy pirr teng bûye, lê bi dîtina min ne sebeba astengkirina wî ye. Wîkîpediya ne cihê bi tenê ji bo zimannas û pisporan e, ensîklopediyeke azad e, ji bo her kesî vekirî ye. Jixwe, daxwaza min jî ew e, weke ya te û ya Avestaboy, ku ensîklopediyeke bikalîte be. Gotinên tûj li bikarînên din bi kar neyîne, bi awayekî biaqil behsa vê mijarê bike. Destxweş bî û bimîne di xweşiyê de. --MikaelF (gotûbêj) 18:28, 6 tîrmeh 2022 (UTC)